Agco’s Massey Ferguson and Fendt Ideal combines differ in two ways. Badges and Fendt having access to the highest capacity variant, the Ideal 10T. Everything else is the same including the black finish.

We took our first in-depth look at Agco Ideal combines back in November 2017, production Massey Ferguson and Fendt badged Ideal models reaching the UK in the 2019 model year. There are three Ideal combines available from Massey Ferguson, the single rotor Ideal 7 with a 451hp 9.8-litre Agco Power engine and the twin rotor Ideal 8 and Ideal 9 with 538hp 12.4-litre  and 15.7-litre 647hp MAN power units respectively (at launch). 

The Fendt range is the same except for the range topping 790hp 16.2-litre MAN engine Ideal 10T with TrackRide tracks as standard. Ideal rated power outputs have changed slightly over the past five years but the nominal outputs listed above remain a decent guide.

As a used combine buyer, it follows that you have the benefit of being able to find out how Ideal combines have performed in decidedly mixed harvests over the past six seasons. This will have provided a true insight into their harvesting performance. But here we just look at various checks and spec details. It is down to you to find out if a used Ideal is the right combine for your business.

Fewer moving parts

Terms you will see repeated when describing the Ideal will include ‘simple’ and ‘straightforward’. Mechanically, Ideal combines are certainly far less complex than you might think but this is not the same as suggesting the fixable ‘metal bits’ are the only things to consider. You need to be aware that there are numerous sensors and automated features, and you should check the combine’s specs in detail.  The likes of guidance and yield mapping were standard on UK machines, for example and the level of automatic crop settings offered. 

As to mechanical checks, the same used combine buying advice applies. Start at the header and work back. As most Ideal models will be sold through a dealer it is fair to expect the machine to have been prepared for retail sale, with late autumn and early winter a great time to look for a used buy.

NOTE: New Ideal combines are offered with service and warranty packages of up to five years / 3,500 hours. A used buy may have the balance of its new warranty remaining but if this expires before you are going to work the machine ensure the combine has had a dealer check. This could ensure any necessary work covered by the warranty is completed ahead of it running out.

Agco offer three header options with the Ideal, in-house SuperFlow (pictured), Geringhoff or MacDon drapers. The latter two are more complex but the basic used buying checks will be similar. Look for damage, a straight cutterbar, play in the reel tine bar and missing knife sections. If the header is mounted on the transport trailer, give that a thorough looking over too. Shelbourne Reynolds and Zeigler trailers are both popular, with steered axles the default choice for tables of 10.70m plus. Twin axle four-wheel-steer header trailers rated at 40km/r transport speeds, incidentally, are expensive bits of kit, with new retail prices of around £19K. When looking at used Ideal prices, consider the extra cost that may be added if a high spec trailer and flex draper header are part of the deal.
Drop-off guides with slide in trailer docks are fitted to some tables and trailers. The dock system latches in place, a manual securing pin locking the header to the trailer. The header itself has yellow painted brackets to aid hitching up to the combine and the header drive shafts attach at 45° to ease fitting and removal. A combination quick hydraulic and electrical connector is standard. This should make hooking the header on and off relatively straightforward. AGCO offer an AutoDock header attachment system as an option. This automatically connects and uncouples the header to the drive, hydraulics and electrics with no need to leave the cab. This is a near £10,500 option. It is best suited to farms with a smaller field size that results in frequent header removal/refit. It is a rare find on UK Ideal combines.

Headers/tables and intake

Massey Ferguson and Fendt Ideal models, like any combine, can be fitted with a variety of header designs. The standard offering will be a choice of 7.70m (25ft), 9.20m (30ft), 10.70m (35ft) or 12.20m (40ft) SuperFlow. These are fitted with three belts that run in the direction of travel to pass incoming crop to the cross auger. SuperFlow tables feature a 760mm diameter cross auger and a strengthened driveline when compared to the narrower PowerFlow headers offered on lower capacity Agco combines. 

Belts should last the life of the header, be it a SuperFlow or Geringhoff, replacements typically only being necessary if a belt is damaged. The large diameter SuperFlow header auger fingers are long so look for damage or if any are missing. The bearings need to be kept well-greased and have no play. The Schumacher knife sections all need to be checked too. If you do not spend at least half an hour looking over a header you will miss something.

Geringhoff Truflex draper headers have been officially offered through Agco dealers since 2022, with around 30% of Ideal models in the UK now having them fitted from new. These headers also have belts but with these running across the table to feed crop to the centre of the header. Draper sizes on offer are 10.70m (35ft), 12.20m (40ft) or 13.70m (45ft) unit. A 15.22m (50ft) option for Fendt Ideal 10T models listed as a 2025 model year option. 

A couple of bolts secure the SuperFlow belt drive covers in place, making it easy to check the driveline and chains. A periodic check to lube and remove debris build up in this area should be enough to keep this element of the header running without problems. Note the drive chain attachment points to the belt. The latter cannot slip. Obviously, rust can appear quickly on bare metal, a combine that has been used as a demo for brief periods quickly showing light rust on bare header metal. This should rub off easily.

Geringhoff tables are more complex and heavier than the SuperFlow but are designed to accommodate a degree of flex when working across undulating ground; Flex models have a rigid frame and flexible cutter bar, Truflex a flexible frame and Truflex Razor with both. In terms of performance in level going, a SuperFlow and Geringhoff should do much the same job. More recently the full range of MacDon headers have been made available, with some Agco dealers now authorised MacDon suppliers.

The combine feed elevator would have been a three-chain single slat design on the Ideal 7 and 8, this changing to the four-chain divided slat unit fitted to the larger combines from 2022. This change was made to reduce component differences as opposed to problems with the three-chain design, but a three-chain elevator upgrade is available. 

A key difference between models is the lift capacity of the feed elevator lift rams, the Ideal 7 and 8 models having a 5,000kg capacity, the Ideal 9 and Fendt Ideal 10 both lifting 6,500kg to reflect their ability to operate with wider and heavier headers.

The drive on each side of a SuperFlow header has a chain to run the auger and belt drive rollers with the belt powering the Schumacher cutter bar. Rape side knives can be fitted.

Drives and threshing system

From the header and elevator, the 600mm diameter 4.84m long rotors are the key moving part. According to Agco, the rotors consume 20-50% less power than some alternative designs. In our profi Practical Test of an Ideal 9T (05/22), we saw fuel usage of between 15-18l/ha. 

The IdealBalance grain pans (Agco give most elements of the combine a name) are made from plastic. They mount on rubber bushes to allow shaking like a conventional combine grain pan with no provision for adjustment or calibration with fewer component parts as a result. A deep ‘belly’ at the front of the pan has the capacity to accommodate a large quantity of crop and is claimed to allow slope compensation of up to 15%. 

The sieve area is 4.90m2 on the Ideal 8 and 9, increased to 5.40m2 on the Ideal 9 and Fendt Ideal 10. Total cleaning area to include the shoes is 7.45m2 and 7.95m2 respectively. Electric sieve adjustment is standard on all models. 

Although an Ideal is mechanically simple, the electronics are far more complex, with 52 mass acoustic detection sensors and numerous cameras enabling the combine to self-adjust to suit conditions. An idea of how the sensors work includes those fitted to the rotors and the shaker shoe. Between them, these sensors measure  crop  flow  and combine data from a grain quality camera to monitor grain losses, with the percentage of cracked grain shown in real time on the in-cab display. 

This information can enable the combine operator to adjust the ratio of output to grain quality, the combine automatically fine-tuning the rotor, fan speed and sieve openings. It is all clever stuff. As a used buy, you will of course need to know if these elements of the combine a reliable. Asking around, it would appear some users have had problems with their Ideal combines but these automated systems tend not to be among them

As simple as one, two and three? The core elements of an Ideal combine are the rotors (just one for an Ideal 7), grain pan and sieves, the latter having removable sections to speed cleaning when changing between crops. Impellors at the front of the rotors propel incoming crop through longitudinally mounted drum and concaves, with the threshed straw drawn along the rotor by angled vanes. Ideal combines produce a relatively narrow, tall swath. The grain pan under the rotors has no adjustments with high volume triple fan blowers under the front of the sieves creating the cleaning draft with air exiting through outlets at the rear. The fans have hydraulic drive and can be adjusted to run at stepless speeds between 150 to 1,500rpm.
Access to the concaves is via easily removed covers. Swapping between grain and pulse concaves is straightforward. On twin-rotor Ideal 8, 9 and10 models, there are concave and rotor access plates on each side of the machine. Note the plastic grain pan under the concave. This mounts on suspended bushes, its deep belly enabling the combine to work across slopes of up to 15° without the need for a self-levelling system.

Residue management

The straw chopper has hydraulic drive, with deflector vanes to vary the spread pattern, with manual or electric adjustment. Agco offered ActiveSpread oscillating straw spreaders as an option, with the latter becoming a default fit from 2023. The vane spreader system works fine on headers of up to 10.70m but could produce a less even spread pattern when dealing with the wider headers typically fitted to the Ideal 9 and Fendt Ideal 10.

This gap ahead of the straw chopper is filled in on combines made from around 2023. Debris can accumulate in this area which can making working on the straw chopper a messy job. This now plugged gap has no impact upon the combine’s working ability.
Agco offer ActiveSpread (left) to SwingFlow (right) oscillating straw spreaders, the latter becoming the default fit in 2023 to improve straw distribution across the width of wider tables. The FineCut straw chopper fitted to all models has 112 knives in eight rows with an operating speed of 3,600rpm or a lower 850rpm when dealing with short, brittle straw. Spread width is adjusted from the cab with a section control system when on short work/not cutting the full width of the header.

On pre-2023 models, the void ahead of the chopper can suffer residue build up, an easily spotted filler plate added to later combines solving the problem. It follows you get what is fitted to a used buy. 

Hydraulically powered, the rotor reverser (arrowed) can be used to either to force a blockage out by reversing the rotor or operated with a ‘nudge’ function that pulses the rotor back and forth to ease a blockage through.
Large vents above the rear wheels(arrowed) release pressurised air from the cleaning system, chaff exiting via the adjustable spreaders to the rear of the sieves. Chaff spread can be to the sides or into the swath. The spreaders swing to the side for access to the sieves.

There are a pair of hydraulically powered chaff spreaders that adjust to blow material outward or into the straw swath. These units are pivot mounted to allow them to fold out of the way to access the sieves. 

The sieves rubber bushed shaking system are difficult check but expect this area to be clean on a prepared used buy. Flaps on the underside of the combine open to speed up cleaning, external handles making them easy to open without having to crawl under the combine. On post 2023 models these handles are also used to close, as opposed to just release, the flaps to make the job even easier.
According to Agco service literature there is just one drive chain and thirteen belts on an Ideal combine. Regarding daily maintenance, the decal (arrowed) on the side of the combine suggests there are just six grease points that need a shot of lube every 50 hours, others at 100, 250 and 500 hour intervals. The drive line gearboxes have glass oil level sight windows. A rag to wipe these clean makes checks faster. Chandler’s combine service specialist Simon Osborne suggests wielding a grease gun more frequently than recommended does no harm with the established reasoning that grease and a bit more preparation time is cheaper than new parts. The main driveline (inset) is relatively simple.
A cut-out in the metal indicator plate gives a visual guide to set the tension of various drive belts. The location of the tensioners is outlined in the operator’s manual, a check through the latter helping to identify where all 13 are located.

Grain tank and unloading auger

The grain elevator drive side on the right of the combine is relatively clutter free which makes looking this area over straightforward. Access covers will enable you to easily look further into the combine without the need for tools. The framework ledges on Ideal combines are angled to make these areas less prone to trapping debris (or a hiding spot for a forgotten spanner).
Not a lot to see in grain tank but take time to inspect the folding covers and the bubble up auger bearing for play. The grain unloading auger has the capacity to run at a rate of 210l/sec, gates in the hopper allowing the operator to reduce the rate of flow if necessary. The cross auger gate can also be closed when unloading to allow the auger to be emptied of grain. This will reduce the load on the engine when it next comes to emptying the tank and ensure the auger is empty if it is left extended.
The unloading auger length will be linked to the header width but it can vary so check. The standard auger lengths are 7.60m, 9.20m and 10.60m, a folding end section listing as an option that will be the default on the longest auger option. Even when folded, the auger extends a long way to the rear of the combine. Look for damage. Adjustable spout added as an option from 2023 and can be retrofitted.

Wheels and tracks

Most Ideal 8 and 9 will be 8T and 9T variants fitted with the TrackRide tracks. When considering a used model, do not overlook the transport width of the combine, variants running 800 and 900 tyres being wider than even the widest track alternative. Unless a machine has done a lot of road travel, the tracks should last for near the life of the combine, the same applying to tyres. Driven rear wheels are an option on all models, with a retrofit possible. Not over common in the UK.

Offered with a choice of 660mm 26in, 762mm 30in and 914mm 36in wide tracks, the AGCO TrackRide system option on the Ideal 8T and 9T is standard on the Fendt Ideal 10T. Respective travel widths are listed as less than 3.30m, 3.50m and 3.80 respectively, figures that are lower than wide 800 and 900 tyres up front. An accumulator to rear tensions the belts, the other looking after the suspension system. A diff lock is fitted to all variants as standard.
Massey 9T to the left, Fendt 10T to the right, the 9T on the widest 36in tracks, the 10T on 30in. The latter are popular as the travel width is down to around 3.50m. The Ideal range tops out Fendt 10T, the Massey maxing out with the Ideal 9T. The latter, like the smaller Ideal 7 and 8, is offered in wheeled format. All models can be fitted with a powered rear axle that is also offered as a retrofit.

There are no specific problem areas with the tracks, so just look for wear and damage to the drive, idler and intermediate roller rubber. Bearing wear should not be a problem, but some may overlook routine greasing. As the tracks automatically tension, any sag suggests there is a problem with the tension system but this is unusual.

Up in the cab, you will find either a conventional steering wheel or IdealDrive joystick system (right). The latter is only offered on TrackRide models and is proving an increasingly popular choice. That being said, not all users like the system if tricky roads are part of their combine transport routes. Header visibility with or without a steering column is good.

Cab

Apart from the in-cab cool box changing to a true fridge from 2024, little will have changed in terms of overall Ideal cab specifications, with a key used check of selecting between conventional steering wheel or IdealDrive joystick steering on TrackRide T models. IdealDrive does away with the steering column, the joystick mounting on the left seat arm rest. 

In profi tests, in-cab noise levels of up to 77d(B)A were recorded. 

Both Massey and Fendt Ideal models have the same display and joystick control with 10.4in touch screen and LCD mini-display to monitor functions such as crop losses. HarvestPlus is listed as the standard set-up but the full fat IdealHarvest automation of key functions is the one most would have ticked so will be common to most used models. IdealHarvest enables operation priorities to be set such as minimising losses or improving sample quality with the software taking care of the settings. Detail tweaks may be needed but many just let the combine set up and look after itself. A separate tablet will ease operation with IdealHarvest.
When looking over the cooling pack you will note there is no evidence of a cleaning system, such as a rotary screen. Agco instead fit a reversible pitch engine fan, this automatically reversing air flow to actively blow the coolant pack clear of debris at fixed two minute intervals and when the unloading auger is used. When the air flow is reversed the system is also used to blow the air filter intake pipe clear of debris. This should prolong the life of the expensive air filter element.

Engine and cooling

Early Ideal models could have problems with the AdBlue system related to blocked breather filters. AGCO resolved these and other details with several upgrades so this should not be a worry for used buyers. There were also a few changes made to the heat shield on some machines but overall engine and cooling pack related trouble spots should not be a concern. 

NOTE: Ideal service intervals are 250 hours minor and 500 hours major. 

MAN engines are fitted to all models except the Ideal 7. The power units themselves are not known for any problems but the AdBlue system on early 2019 and 2020 models could give trouble related to filters blocking. These problems were resolved by AGCO updates.

Summary: The oldest Ideal combines will have six harvests behind them, with AGCO clearly keen to ensure these combines have delivered in terms of both performance and dependability. As a used buyer, a key point to note is that early model problems were noted and the first machines sold will have had upgrades that should ensure any teething problems are now just that.

Can you therefore drop your used buying guard? No, of course not. Wear and tear plus less than diligent maintenance can see even the best of machines suffer. The key is to look for a used buy well ahead of needing it, doing your specification homework and buying the best combine you can afford. That should lead to an Ideal buy.

IDEAL FROM A DEALER’S PERSPECTIVE?

Keith Davies has been involved with Massey Ferguson combines for over 35 years and retains a soft spot for hybrid Massey Ferguson 9795 Delta models but sees the Ideal as a major advance.

Rob Immink, Simon Osborne and Keith Davies of Chandlers (Farm Equipment) have seen sales of Ideal combines increase since the combines became available in 2019. Initial teething problems aside, the Ideal has subsequently proven a dependable performer with combine service specialist Simon describing the Ideal as farm maintenance friendly.

“Delta combines are underrated in my opinion. They are extremely versatile and dependable if properly maintained” he says. “As the Ideal range was completely new, I thought it would take us time to learn what these models could do but as it turned out they are probably the simplest combine to set up I have ever worked with. The automatic pre-set crop settings are easily tweaked to suit varying conditions, the high discharge rate of the unloading auger proving the only thing that caught me out. Some early Ideal models did have a few problems but these were ironed out with the benefit of factory updates. This can make even the earliest of Ideal combines a safe and dependable used buy”.

Chandler’s combine service specialist Simon Osborne says an Ideal combine is not difficult to maintain.

“These are mechanically straightforward combines”, points out Simon. “Most maintenance tasks can be carried out in a farm workshop and I can typically resolve any running problems users come up against over the phone. It is clear to see that a lot of thought has gone into making the combine easy to look after. Once you know your way around the combine it is a very simple machine”.

Rob Immink says used Ideal combines are currently competitively priced due more to the current combine market overall as opposed to problems with the combines themselves.

“Agco were quick to get on top of teething problems with early Ideal combines, all 2019 and interim model year models having been brought up to essentially the same build as 2022 combines,” explains Rob. “The Massey Ferguson PSB programme was comprehensive, which helps us ensure buyers of a used model will not run into any of the known teething problems we first ran up against. As a dealer, this helps us sell on a used buy with a high level of confidence that it will not let a customer down”. 

James de Havilland

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